Topic: 1987 Jaguar XJ-S V12 Project Thread (Read 4885 times)

XtremeRevolution · « **Reply #25 on:** March 29, 2009, 12:46:16 AM »

He just called me back, and I'll be picking them up tomorrow at around 6:00PM. I'll post up pictures when I get a chance so you mechanically uneducated losers can see what I'm talking about.

Vaj is for Fags · « **Reply #26 on:** March 29, 2009, 02:01:35 AM »

Ah, okay. Was kind of confused in all that. Good for you. Although, something to consider is giving the guy a twenty or so as thanks for all of his hassle when he shows up with them if they are in good condition. Judging by his emails he seems like he has realized that he is undercharging you but since he agreed to it he'll stick to it. It would be a very nice gesture on your part to recognize that with a little extra compensation.

XtremeRevolution · « **Reply #27 on:** March 29, 2009, 02:33:48 AM »

Quote from: Vaj is for Fags on March 29, 2009, 02:01:35 AM

Ah, okay. Was kind of confused in all that. Good for you. Although, something to consider is giving the guy a twenty or so as thanks for all of his hassle when he shows up with them if they are in good condition. Judging by his emails he seems like he has realized that he is undercharging you but since he agreed to it he'll stick to it. It would be a very nice gesture on your part to recognize that with a little extra compensation.

Well yeah, I realized that too, and sent him more. The agreement was $175, and I sent him $225 via paypal. I would have sent him more, but I've had a lot of expenses this week.

Vaj is for Fags · « **Reply #28 on:** March 29, 2009, 02:30:22 PM »

Ah, okay, confusion continued.

XtremeRevolution · « **Reply #29 on:** March 30, 2009, 01:08:22 AM »

Picked up the cylinder heads today. Damn they're freakin huge, and heavy as hell. I can barely carry the both of them. I'll have pictures up soon. The guy spend 12 hours getting them off. If I had paid him just for the labor to take them off, he would have been getting ripped off. Surprisingly, he was very happy to have taken this challenge. The valve seats also seem to be intact, which was my only concern.

Seems like I'll be buying a 2-liter bottle of Coke to soak the studs to free up the coolant deposits when I do this job myself.

Pictures to come tomorrow.

XtremeRevolution · « **Reply #30 on:** March 30, 2009, 03:53:54 AM »

I have PHOTOS!!!!!

First off, better pics of the car, and me pushing that 4000 lb hunk of metal...alone

Second, the new cylinder heads. My laptop took a shit while trying to edit one of the files, so I only have one of photo with the bottom of the heads where you can see the valve seats. The smaller, darker circles are the valve seats, which being steel instead of aluminum, basically fall out of the heads when the engine overheats. If they fall far enough, they drop completely, shatter inside the cylinder as the piston crunches it against the head, thereby destroying the head, the cylinder wall, the piston, the sleeves, and the story goes on. On my engine, the piston is merely tapping up against the valve seat, which hasn't yet dropped completely. Here are some photos to give you an idea of how truly massive and complicated they really are:

Only one thing wrong with them. 4 of the studs broke while he was getting them loose, so I'll need to get them out using a reverse drill (already have the kit from before) and order some bolts online to replace them.

Red October · « **Reply #31 on:** March 30, 2009, 12:00:36 PM »

That's intense. Those things are HUGE.

Funky · « **Reply #32 on:** March 31, 2009, 06:56:40 AM »

I hope you will take the heads to a shop to have them cleaned,surfaced,and new seals put in before installation,(seeing how I didn't see any machines in your small corner of the public garage)so that you don't have to take them back out later.All those neighbors around and no one to help you push that tank(4000 pnds lol)around the parking lot?

XtremeRevolution · « **Reply #33 on:** March 31, 2009, 02:57:05 PM »

Quote from: Funky on March 31, 2009, 06:56:40 AM

I hope you will take the heads to a shop to have them cleaned,surfaced,and new seals put in before installation,(seeing how I didn't see any machines in your small corner of the public garage)so that you don't have to take them back out later.All those neighbors around and no one to help you push that tank(4000 pnds lol)around the parking lot?

lol, yeah. I'll have the heads cleaned myself. I might take them somewhere to have them surfaced, but they only have 64,000 miles on them, so in all honesty, how bad can it really be? I bought them with low mileage so I wouldn't have to have anything else done to them, that I could just drop them right in to replace the bad ones. The ones on the car have currently 163,000 miles, and the car was running perfectly before the idiot let it overheat.

XtremeRevolution · « **Reply #34 on:** April 03, 2009, 01:08:47 AM »

Alright, first round of parts ordered...

1987 JAGUAR XJS 5.3L 5343cc V12 MFI (

BECK/ARNLEY   0360305 (036-0305)   Valve Cover Gasket   $ 10.31   x   1   $ 10.31
BECK/ARNLEY   0360297 (036-0297)   Valve Cover Gasket   $ 10.15   x   1   $ 10.15
BECK/ARNLEY   0390026 (039-0026)   Water Outlet Gasket   $ 1.45   x   1   $ 1.45
BECK/ARNLEY   0396312 (039-6312)   Intake Manifold Gasket   $ 10.44   x   2   $ 20.88
BECK/ARNLEY   1755255 (175-5255)   Spark Plug Wire Set   $ 35.99   x   1   $ 35.99
BECK/ARNLEY   0396311 Exh. Manifold Gasket   $ 10.71   x   2   $ 21.42
BECK/ARNLEY   1430628     Thermostat     $ 4.74   x   2   $ 9.48
BECK/ARNLEY   0390027     Water Outlet Gasket   $ 1.45   x   1   $ 1.45
CHAMPION   304     Spark Plug     $ 0.94   x   14   $ 13.16
FRAM   PH2931     Oil Filter     $ 4.66   x   1   $ 4.66
SK10     Fuel Injector O-Ring   $ 1.78   x   2   $ 3.56
Discount       $ -6.63
Shipping Location 1   Ground (FedEx or UPS)   $ 15.08
Shipping Location 2   Ground (FedEx or UPS)   $ 9.92

Order Total       $ 150.88

Cost to date: $842 + $225 (heads) + $151 = $1218

Expect another $200 on top of that for head gaskets, and another $250 for Euro style downpipes (30-50 hp gains supposedly), intake manifolds for porting and polishing, and exhaust manifolds for porting. I'll also need a timing chain tensioner, but I haven't found one yet. Shouldn't be more than $50.

Time to start porting those heads...

XtremeRevolution · « **Reply #35 on:** April 03, 2009, 03:18:12 PM »

Just ordered head gaskets. Found a much cheaper place online for $160 shipped. (welshent.com - Welsh Enterprises). Up to $1382, which also includes yesterday's can of engine cleaner.

All I should need now is a timing chain tensioner and new fuel hoses to get the engine running again.

Funky · « **Reply #36 on:** April 03, 2009, 09:01:48 PM »

Spend the extra money,and go for the braided fuel hoses and lines(they are a better fit if you decide to add some extra ponies)good pressure,and no vapor lock.

XtremeRevolution · « **Reply #37 on:** April 04, 2009, 01:45:30 PM »

Quote from: Funky on April 03, 2009, 09:01:48 PM

Spend the extra money,and go for the braided fuel hoses and lines(they are a better fit if you decide to add some extra ponies)good pressure,and no vapor lock.

Will do. I'm still looking at where to get the fuel lines, so I'll try to find some of those.

I can't believe what I just heard. Looks like this will be my new project car for long term.

"Andrei,

The way that I look at it is that you are not too scared to get in there and do it. Many people wouldn't. I applaud you for that.

You are right about the horsepower. Think of it this way, the Group 44 team, with some mild cams and Webber fuel injection, made over 650 hp on a 6.3L engine. The thing that is amazing, is that the stock 90mm bore of the engine can accept up to 98mm overbore without being anywhere close to unsafe, it has been done before. And, the stock 70mm crank swing can be up to 90mm. The 98mm bore and 90mm crank would yeild an 8.1L engine or 496 cubic inches. With piston liners, a 10L engine can be achieved. The V12 is by far the most stretchable engine ever produced.

Breathing is not the problem. However, one of the biggest problems of this engine is the throttle body. You will, in your quest, see others putting 2 throttle bodies per bank. I think that the answer lies in either one huge throttle body in an LT1 styled ram intake or 2 separate 80 - 90 mm throttle bodies in the current configuration. The reason why the engine needs the air circulating pump is from the fact that it does not receive enough air. The way to solve this is to ram more air in."

That's the guy who sold me the heads, who is also selling me the euro downpipes, exhaust manifolds, and intake manifolds for porting, along with the two cams if I ever want to get a custom grind in the future.

Also, I got some pictures of body kits that you can put on this car.

Apparently, the spoiler from a late model Celica almost identically matches the one on the Jaguar XJRS.

Looks like I've got myself into one hell of a fun project with a TON of potential.

XtremeRevolution · « **Reply #38 on:** April 04, 2009, 01:46:10 PM »

So I figured out a few more things. There are two epic problems with this car.

The biggest restriction on this car is the throttle body. It is much too small and restricts air too much, and doesn't allow for enough performance.

The other problem is the ECM. The ECM in this V12 is a 4-cyl ECM. It sprays 4 cylinders at a time, and waits for the timing to spark them. This is what my friend Scott had explained earlier. We've been sending 2-3 long e-mails back and forth per day and I'm starting to understand the problems with this engine. This is in fact such a major issue, that the 6.0L V12 in later models run 340HP (from the 285 on the 5.3L) almost solely because they use a 6-cyl ECM, which is still less than ideal.

Apparently, to get around this problem, people have installed two V6 ECM's from a Ford/Buick (supposedly Ford being the easier swap), and their considerably larger matching throttle bodies, and have gotten above 350HP on the 5.3L engine on that alone!!! The concept is that the V12 works as two separate V6 banks. The trick is to put two cam sensors on the car, and also retrofit a cam position sensor from a ford or buick, depending on your ECM.

350HP+ on throttle bodies and ECMs alone? I'm afraid to guess what I'll be pulling with thoroughly ported and polished heads, intake manifolds, and exhaust manifolds, and euro style down pipes. I had a feeling 285hp was a bit low for a V12, and I'm beginning to discover why. Looks like 400hp is right around the corner.

Funky · « **Reply #39 on:** April 04, 2009, 02:29:27 PM »

I'd just worry about getting it road worthy before worrying about changing the ECM chip,that's something you can always do down the road.
FYI: loved the one that is all gray(not the convertible),just add the hood from the green one,now that's a CLEAN CAR.

XtremeRevolution · « **Reply #40 on:** April 08, 2009, 12:58:46 AM »

Just got the parts. RockAuto screwed up, twice. The injector o-rings are a set of 6. On the packing list they show two (two sets of 6), so the packer dude sent me two injector o-rings. Same exact thing for the exhaust manifold gaskets. He sent me two. I need 12. Argh. Had to call them back.

Oh well, not like I'll be needing them any time soon anyway.

BTW, that oil filter is MASSIVE. Its at least 2x as big as the one on my dad's 4.7L Dodge Dakota.

XtremeRevolution · « **Reply #41 on:** April 08, 2009, 01:00:20 AM »

SOB! The guy was late a month on the registration, so guess who got to pay $61 in late fees? Yeah...

Cost me $191 to get it registered, though luckily that includes the plates. I still need to get it smog tested once it runs, then complete the registration to get the new plates. The idiot-governed state of California can kiss my white ass once again.

That just bumped me up to $1573 so far.

Got a picture of that oil filter btw. Here it is next to my 3800 filter:

Have I mentioned yet that it uses 12 quarts of oil? One for each cylinder! :mad:

Funky · « **Reply #42 on:** April 08, 2009, 06:58:37 AM »

Quote from: XtremeRevolution on April 08, 2009, 01:00:20 AM

I still need to get it smog tested once it runs, then complete the registration to get the new plates. The idiot-governed state of California can kiss my white ass once again.

Don't you just love California emission laws...

Red October · « **Reply #43 on:** April 08, 2009, 10:35:55 AM »

Quote from: Funky on April 08, 2009, 06:58:37 AM

Don't you just love California emission laws...

Don't you just love the smell of smog in the morning?

Anyway I ran across a cute little article that I thought was relevant to this project: http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=26&article_id=7927

XtremeRevolution · « **Reply #44 on:** April 08, 2009, 11:21:35 AM »

Not sure if I mentioned this here, but I discovered why this car overheated. He overheated Bank B as a result of a very stupid radiator system.

The Jag radiator is a two-pass radiator, with an inlet on the bottom of bank B, and an outlet on the top of Bank A and Bank B. The problem with this is that it allows much warmer coolant to flow through the top of Bank B, and doesn't get cooled down enough.

So I either have to find an alloy radiator, or convert my two-pass to a single pass radiator with a 'T' splitter on the Bank A outlet end to go to both banks and cap off the Bank B outlet.

Sman666 · « **Reply #45 on:** April 08, 2009, 12:16:46 PM »

is there a reason u use the tough guard oil filter......i just use the normal one on my car (fram ph3387a)

Funky · « **Reply #46 on:** April 08, 2009, 02:16:23 PM »

Quote from: Sman666 on April 08, 2009, 12:16:46 PM

is there a reason u use the tough guard oil filter......i just use the normal one on my car (fram ph3387a)

It's wise to use the tough and extra tough after any engine work or the first 3000 miles after buying a used car,the tougher the fiter,the less chance of a small piece of metal shaving will get through(after engine work).It also protects better against engine honey that someone might have put in a car before you buy it(engine honey tends to be thicker than oil,and therefore tends to stay at the bottom of a good oil filter)

XtremeRevolution · « **Reply #47 on:** April 08, 2009, 05:01:25 PM »

Quote from: Funky on April 08, 2009, 02:16:23 PM

Quote from: Sman666 on April 08, 2009, 12:16:46 PM
is there a reason u use the tough guard oil filter......i just use the normal one on my car (fram ph3387a)
It's wise to use the tough and extra tough after any engine work or the first 3000 miles after buying a used car,the tougher the fiter,the less chance of a small piece of metal shaving will get through(after engine work).It also protects better against engine honey that someone might have put in a car before you buy it(engine honey tends to be thicker than oil,and therefore tends to stay at the bottom of a good oil filter)

Buddy there's a hell of a lot bigger reason than that. I would have used a Tough Guard filter for the Jaguar if I could find one, but this and the weird British brand were the only two available.

Have a look at this if you want to know why I use the ToughGuard filters.

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters/reference.html
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters/opinions.html

You'd be surprised to hear that the Tough Guard is the only good filter Fram makes. Filters do make a difference. Purolator filters are excellent, as are the Mobile 1 and K&N (though at a higher price tag). Just read through the articles.

Funky · « **Reply #48 on:** April 08, 2009, 06:19:01 PM »

I only use FRAM EXTRA TOUGHGUARD with my 403 Oldsmobile(84 Grand Prix),it catches alot of shit(considering it's not really a streetcar[6 MPG],I give it hell).I have to rering it every 2 years(starts to smoke on topend after about 1 year[told you I give it hell],and lose a couple of ponies)FRAM ALL THE WAY.

Lazy Korean · « **Reply #49 on:** April 08, 2009, 07:07:10 PM »

awesome project XR, im envious of you being able to mod a car on the manner you do, keep up the work

btw when the hell did you move to CA?

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Author Topic: 1987 Jaguar XJ-S V12 Project Thread (Read 4885 times)